Re: Tina Turner is no longer an American citizen
Posted by Daniel H on May 1, 2015, 5:46 am, in reply to "Tina Turner is no longer an American citizen"
This subject is big in Canada, this article is about the number of people denouncing being much lower than what is actually happening. The comments are some of the best I have found. Tina Turner did not renounce she relenquished. She has been living in Switzerland for 20 years and relenquished US to get Swiss citizenship. Individual stories outside of Canada are still illusive but here is one. Below are some notes if you care to go through them, the better ones are near the end. A determined band of Canadians is legally challenging the FATCA IGA signed by the Harperite government under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. No Canadian can be discriminated against based on nationality; in this case US nationality. The site can be found here: www.adcs-adsc.ca ****EDIT: This is a great site, very well organized, a good example for other protest to follow. Good Canadian Parliment summary here,(excellent editing). Some personal stories here I hope you Canadians are supporting this effort. http://www.wsj.com/articles/more-expatriate-americans-break-up-with-uncle-sam-to-escape-tax-rules-1402972439#livefyre-comment Richard Saunders Jun 17, 2014 @Vincent Spencer The HEART Act changed the 10 year provision. It's now a capital gains tax on all unrealized gains for covered ex-patriots (as defined in the HEART Act). The tax payment is due with the final income tax return of the ex-patriot who is renouncing/relinquishing citizenship. It is commonly referred to as the "exit tax." Exit taxes were also quite common in communist countries. For example, Cuba has an exit tax in order to compensate the state for the education that was received by the emigrant. They also refuse to allow most professionals to leave under the same principles. The Soviet Union and many Warsaw Pact countries also charged an exit tax....So we(the USA) are in very good company. CHRIS WELSH Jun 17, 2014 Question: If Ms. Moon is entitled to social security benefits, does she still receive them after renouncing her citizenship? steve miller Jun 17, 2014 @CHRIS WELSH It's a very long, complicated answer. There is a benefits clawback for anybody who contributed into Social Security for less than 30 years. If you contributed for less than 15 years the result is basically zero. The U.S. has done an excellent job of making social security eligibility for expats (and ex-citizens) as Byzantine as its tax code. -------- Michael Surkan Jun 17, 2014 I think the message the US is sending to its citizens is very clear: forfeit your citizenship if you choose to live abroad. Aside from just the complexity of US tax filings for ex-pats is the fact that foreign banks are increasingly turning their backs on Americans. More and more foreign banks refuse to take Americans as customers. It just isn't worth the hassle or risk for a foreign bank to have American customers. The US imposes huge reporting requirements on any bank doing business in the US regarding the accounts of their customers with US citizenship. Worse, the US imposes massive penalties on any bank that doesn't properly submit all these required reports. The end result is that it is fast becoming impossible for ex-pats to live abroad since they might not be able to find any banks to work with in the near future. If you want to live abroad the first step is to renounce your citizenship. -------------- Pat Galbraith Jun 17, 2014 @Anthony Zipple you will never get rid of lobbyists but a consumption tax leaves them very little wiggle room. ---------------------- Frank Oliveri Jun 17, 2014 I know many ex-pats residing full and part time in the Dominican Republic. FACTA is a big problem for them when it comes to opening a local bank account. ------------- Wilton Tidwell Jun 17, 2014 Our taxpayers spend 4.1 billion hours and over 2 billion dollars trying to conform to 77,000 pages of tax code. All wasted on tax preparation of useless forms that could be discontinued. If you want to blame anyone, blame our congress who wrtes all the laws and most tax laws are written to extract the maximum campaign contributions, from those they favor, with changes slipped in in the middle of the night. Since 1986 they have slipped in 8,000 amendments favoring their contributors. Congress has blocked the FairTax which the Citizen For Fair Taxation have spent millions researching, and would if enacted, attract new rich citizens and provide employment for those who have given up even looking for work. ----------------- Richard Saunders Jun 17, 2014 Unfortunately, if you are an American citizen, renunciation is the new normal if you emigrate and want to live long term overseas. Banking has become very difficult if one is an American living outside the country. Not only have my main brokerage accounts been closed in the US because I do not maintain a US address but my foreign accounts have been closed because foreign banks do not want to deal with the reporting requirements mandated by FATCA. Are these unintended consequences of US laws or draconian laws designed to limit the movement of citizens and capital overseas? --------- Roger Conklin Jun 17, 2014 ..........Citizenship renunciation is irrevocable and, in accordance with the law if you renounce to avoid being subject to US taxes then the Treasury Secretary may declare you "persona non-grata", blacklist you and prohibit you from ever visiting the US for any purpose for the rest of your life. A bill introduced by Senators Schumer and Reid, but not yet enacted, would automatically bar those who renounce from ever visiting the US unless they can prove tax avoidance was not a motive for their renunciation. ----------- David Rosenberg Jun 17, 2014 @Jas Gish The IRS is the messenger. Congress made the stupid laws to get crooks without considering the impact on the innocent. ------------------- Richard Saunders Jun 17, 2014 @Lamont Cranston There is actually (at least at this time) only a fairly low probability that you will be banned from reentering the country. The government of course reserves the right who to permit entry. Recall that senators Schumer and Casey proposed the ex-patriot act with some rather draconian rules for preventing common private citizens who expatriated by way of renunciation from reentering the country. It never made it out of committee. If the country does indeed ban the return of people who legitimately emigrated and were effectively forced to renounce, then they will have offered the ultimate proof that such renunciation was necessary to preserve individual freedom. ---------------- Pat Galbraith Jun 17, 2014 Want to solve this "problem"? We have a 75,000 page convoluted code of Byzantine social engineering specifications. Junk it. Junk the 16th Amendment. Institute the FairTax, an end user consumption tax on services and new goods only. Besides the funds held by individuals, there is an estimated $2 to $7 trillion of corporate funds held offshore for the same reason. And I don't blame them. Not one bit. Remember Ross Perot and his sucking sound? Get rid of our tax system and there will be a sonic boom of individual and corporate funds coming "home". Those funds will be followed by foreign businesses coming here to take advantage of an intelligent tax system. Then, if we have the courage, institute a spending limit amendment. Limit total appropriations in any FY to 98% of the second prior FY's total tax receipts. And then start eliminating useless agencies. That's a start. Think about it. ============= Richard Saunders Jun 17, 2014 ............The "most free nation on the planet" is not that anymore. Citizens of the US now face enormous obstacles to exercising their freedom to emigrate. ------------------ steve miller Jun 17, 2014 @Dan Laroque A simplier and fairer method would be to establish a U.S. resident test and tax on residency rather than citizenship, as pretty much every other country in the world does. Most other countries measure this by a combination of factors, including physical presence, the existence of domestic retirement & bank accounts, remaining family members, etc. The U.S. tax code is ill-suited for a globalized world, and the IRS is behaving with greed. ----------------- Victoria Ferauge Jun 17, 2014 .......... For an idea of the thinking that goes into making that decision to renounce here is a post I wrote last year: US Citizenship - a Cost/Benefit Analysis http://bit.ly/UHfsmK. http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.fr/2012/05/american-citizenship-cost-benefit.html -------------- CHUCK HARMON Jun 16, 2014 We have become not much better than East Germany when we have to threaten citizens to stay and not to leave! -------------- Daniel Kuettel Jun 16, 2014 @Scott Safe Americans living abroad don't get any benefits and thus they don't lose anything. Social Security is a savings, not a benefit, and thus it is collected regardless of citizenship status ------------ As an ‘accidental American’ http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/05/03/americans-are-renouncing-citizenship-at-record-pace-and-many-arent-even-counted/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1057-27742-6435 --------------- No one wins when cliches and misrepresentations outweigh careful consideration of all the facts. It is a demonstrable fact that the number is higher than being reported. When I went to pick up my CLN I had an interesting conversation with the young woman who processed my payment. I said to her, “this is one of the saddest $450 I have ever had to spend.” She asked me why and I gave a short couple of sentences and she indicated “well, there sure are a LOT of you.” Then she said, “I don’t care what anyone else says, in my book, you’ll ALWAYS be an American.” Those are the real values we were raised with and what she said speaks volumes more than hundreds of the hate-filled “don’t let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.” http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/05/03/americans-are-renouncing-citizenship-at-record-pace-and-many-arent-even-counted/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1057-27742-6430 --------------- In either case, they are asking the consulate to help them obtain – what is the most sought after document in the world today – that is a certificate of loss of U.S. nationality (CLN). Furthermore, some are paying “big money” to achieve this. There is NO QUESTION that the numbers of those actively seeking the CLN are under-reported. Finally, although Homeland Americans don’t care about this, if they paid attention, they would see how the U.S. government has put an “iron curtain” around the U.S. http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/05/03/americans-are-renouncing-citizenship-at-record-pace-and-many-arent-even-counted/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1057-27742-6442 -------------- Even if you are well under the 2 million mark, FBAR alone can bankrupt you. Just having had 3 small accounts that total $10,000 will, at the present, cost you $180,000 to become compliant. Then there is the ugly, incomprehensible PFICs…can’t even calculate that one. I absolutely agree about the destruction of any good will that these mini ambassadors may have spread abroad. The rage I have met up with from US deemed citizens being financial devastated by a system from which they gain no benefit can only further destroy the US’s image abroad. Now even their own citizens hate them. What is going on with Russia and how FATCA is being used as a tool for sanctions should make all governments nervous. These are scary times and the US is the epicentre. http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/05/03/americans-are-renouncing-citizenship-at-record-pace-and-many-arent-even-counted/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1057-27742-6451 --------------- Can you envision the possible fallout to the US if the constitutional challenge being launched in Canada has a positive outcome. It is a global world now, there are other places to invest. Yes, the US has a massive economy and everyone wants to invest there. But what if these foreign governments collectively wake up, maybe have the courage to follow Canada in the event of a win. (The US must remember Canada has water, abundant natural resources and electricity) Maybe China will be the first to say “no thanks” and others follow. The moral arc of the universe bends at the elbow of justice (MLK), FATCA-IGAs and CBT are simply immoral. http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/05/03/americans-are-renouncing-citizenship-at-record-pace-and-many-arent-even-counted/?commentId=comment_blogAndPostId/blog/comment/1057-27742-6464
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