La Manzanilla Message Board Archives

La Manzanilla Message Board Archives

4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by ElkeG on September 1, 2020, 5:21 pm

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by ElkeG on September 1, 2020, 5:26 pm, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Video - 1 year ago....

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Jean on September 1, 2020, 5:27 pm, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Great video!
Place is ugly, looks like stacked shipping containers.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Daniel H on September 1, 2020, 5:44 pm, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Thanks for posting Elke. Great word Tia and Vern!

Really curious to see how they survived in this past storm, they
weren't finished with all the drainage.

To think every square inch of that went through our town (and
10 feet from my front door).

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by M Morgan on September 1, 2020, 6:17 pm, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

With that much roof area they could have put a heck of a lot of water collection cisterns underneath those cubes.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Linda Mandala on September 1, 2020, 9:36 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Exactly Monte!!! and how about a desalinazation plant so they can use sea water and not drain the aquifers as well...looks like they could afford it......maybe pave the rest of the towns streets with adojin when they are done too...that would be great
Linda

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by david dagoli on September 1, 2020, 10:25 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Good ideas Linda

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Tim Edwards on September 1, 2020, 11:10 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

I won't be popular but....... if you don't like the design, the fact that it exists, it is too large, the rates are too high, they are using water out of our drainage, they moved the material though our town, they ..............

You should have bought the land and done with it what you thought was best. If you think they should be land-use planning like we do in California or Canada, plan on being constantly upset because they don't like "we" do it where we come from.

There are people who think all of us Gringos who have come to LM and built houses on the beach, on the hillside or on the flat, too large, too........ have ruined the quaint village that existed 30 years ago.

There are always the NIMBYs....... once I am here in this ideallic spot, I don't want anyone else to come in.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by William H on September 2, 2020, 1:01 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Just about the ugliest architectural design I have ever seen for a resort. Over developed site with little room for decent land scaping.

I am an international hotel and resort adviser and business inspectorate operator.

I think this is just about the most dreadful development to have on your doorstep. Because unless they make the prices really cheap it will remain empty post covid.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Beccistarr on September 2, 2020, 6:10 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Good for you Tim I agree and so sick of the carping...it’s there folks..don’t like it...too bad... Not like we could have or can or will do anything about. It. The good news is that it will bring commerce to our Mexican friends, neighbors and community. I for one love it here and nobody anywhere can stand in the way of progress.
Shall I tell you about moving to Boulder Colorado in 1969 when there was a population of 45,000 and you could buy a decent house for $200,000 well shucky darn those days are gone forever and yet here I am
I consider it supreme luck that we found Boca and our forever house AND grateful that it’s still standing....albeit partially under water

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Beccistarr on September 2, 2020, 6:14 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Scott just corrected me you actually buy a house for $30,000 back in those days

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by M Morgan on September 2, 2020, 10:56 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

A nice feature of water harvesting and de-salinization is that they can be retro-fitted. For instance it is quite likely the landscaping is not completed or maybe ?? not even started. Road capture of water and upland containment through land contouring are viable options as is capturing water off of roofs. There are many examples of how to do this and success stories. This is scaleable so it can work for resorts or your own personal property, (maybe not de-salinization at home). There are and will be other resorts in the works, so this is not a one shot deal. And it would be great to see this in my backyard.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Brad on September 2, 2020, 7:47 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Wow ! what a disaster .. sooo th 4 Seasons brain trust think that people will flock to a resort with no culture ..no character .. no vibe ... right .. I forgot .. air conditioned limo form the air port .. to an exclusive resort serviced by hundreds of locals ..and then you can say you've been to Mexico .... well I'm thinking they made a big mistake here but time will tell .. hopefully it will be a success and give back to the local community more than it takes..still wondering why all those trucks and traffic had to go right through La Man and not access the project from the high way ...sure there is a logical answer... and then there is the water issue that many are wondering about ....again .. truly hope this project benefits the people of La Man in every way possible ... fingers crossed

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by CraigB on September 2, 2020, 9:56 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Our water problems will be improved when the planned dam goes in at the base of Gringo Gulch.
Sure would have captured a lot of water if it was in place.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Evelyn on September 2, 2020, 11:34 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Not sure what planned dam you’re talking about, Craig, I live not far from Gringo Gulch, beside the arroyo, so am interested in knowing what the future has in store for my area of town. Part of the reason the big trucks are coming through town is the cement plant they’ve built right up against the mountain at the end of town, to make the cement for those ticky tacky boxes they will be using to house their guests. Did anyone see the series ‘Weeds’. The theme song is priceless and describes the Tamarindo development perfectly. The show was priceless too!
Also, the road in from the highway is long, with curve after curve, much quicker to get across the mountain road.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Evelyn on September 2, 2020, 11:37 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Ron Stock on September 4, 2020, 9:23 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Not sure if everyone knows, but Bill Gates and his associates hold a 51% controlling interest (They put up the money). So Gringos have developed this oddly boring assortment of buildings.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Beccistarr on September 4, 2020, 10:37 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

And you mention that why?????
Gringos own Coca Cola too and Ford and on and on

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Correction

Posted by Sfenwick on September 4, 2020, 11:51 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Quick Google search reveals that Gates and associates own 47.5% of Four Seasons. Prince al Waleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia owns 47.5%, and the remaining 5% is owned by Isadore Sharp. Wall Street Journal article confirms this info.

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Re: Correction

Posted by George Messi on September 4, 2020, 12:33 pm, in reply to "Correction"

This entire property (land, golf, villas, hotel) is owned by the Mexican founder of Banamex bank, Roberto Hernandez. You can google him. He's a Mexican Billionaire. When he sold the company to Citibank for 12 billion he paid $0 in capital gains taxes in Mexico, and President Obrador used him as an example of what needed to change in Mexico. He brought in the Four Season "flag" to manage the property, and the Four Seasons charges a monthly fee based on a revenue split, for example 15 % for branding and management. The Four Sesaons didnt have to come up with any capital for this project. That's not their model.

This is single handedly the ugliest new resort project architecturally I have ever seen, absolutely no character. The only thing that can save it is extraordinary landscaping... which I dont expect.

The only silver lining is taht we may get an extra daily international flight on Alaska to Manzanillo from LA. Maybe get twice a week summer schedule.

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Re: Correction

Posted by Ron Stock on September 4, 2020, 8:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Correction"

That's funny, when Melody and I researched who invested in this Four Seasons Resort about one year ago it said, Bill Gates and his associates owned 51%, and that they would receive 1% of net profit and 3% of gross profit on their investment. Not sure why it says differently now. Not sure who is responsible for the poor choice of architects.

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eat those trees

Posted by M Morgan on September 4, 2020, 9:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Correction"

Who are those architects? Who is the lead? Making lemonade from lemons a dialog with the designers may yet allow for some improvements. But first one would need to know whom and how to contact them.

If in fact the landscaping is not yet in place, there could be an opportunity to implement edible landscaping, a food forest of edibles. I am prone to enjoy food. Yet, a yuge selling point for this resort is if they could present themselves as a green destination. We know how many tourists have subliminal guilt about their carbon footprint. ( actually only two). Water harvesting, grey water for irrigation, edible landscaping, solar arrays, and the list could get a lot longer.

The details are not at hand however, in the case of a new golf course in Australia, an hombre contracted with the owners of the golf course to install edible fruit trees and shrubs as the tree and shrub element of the landscaping, maintain them and ensure that only organics were used in the trees and bushes. This happened early on and was very succesful. Dual use of property, very good!

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Re: eat those trees

Posted by Daniel H on September 4, 2020, 9:13 pm, in reply to "eat those trees"

St. Kitts

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=golf+course+in+Australia%2C+edible+fruit+trees&t=ffcm&ia=web

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Re: eat those trees

Posted by Jeani on September 6, 2020, 11:01 am, in reply to "Re: eat those trees"

Great video. What a blight on the previously beautiful coastline!

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Re: eat those trees

Posted by Beccistarr on September 4, 2020, 9:58 pm, in reply to "eat those trees"

No one would ever say you had small dreams Monty. I’m curious about this golf course and your source of that info. Im thinking it had to have been created before the severe droughts and wildfires on that continent and FIRST world nation. Mexico is a third world country or it was last time I checked although some of my buddies who were born and raised here like to think of it as an “emerging nation”. I’m down with that.

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Re: eat those trees

Posted by Monte Morgan on September 5, 2020, 6:35 am, in reply to "Re: eat those trees"

Becci dear, those are not dreams those are possibilities. As far as where, maybe look at the link from duckduckgo that the moderator so thoughfully researched and posted in the posting directly before you.

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Re: eat those trees

Posted by Beccistarr on September 5, 2020, 10:23 am, in reply to "Re: eat those trees"

I commend you for your concept. I’ve been a home owner in Mexico since 1980 and rarely have I witnessed a gringo having this kind of influence over big business but you have such great intentions and it’s always worth a shot. We were whistle blowers for an enormous environmental infraction... were able to get PROFEPA on our side who ultimately stopped the offenders. It can happen but maybe this project is too far along...so landscaping may be the last hurrah...best of luck

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Re: Correction

Posted by Beccistarr on September 4, 2020, 9:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Correction"

Hats off to George Messi who got it right...

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Re: Correction

Posted by Daniel H on September 4, 2020, 9:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Correction"

How do you know George Messi got it right? He has no links to his source
only 'you can google it". I don't know George Messi, the post is worthless
without a source that can be valuated.

Time to get real people and stop beliving/spreading unverified information
from people who don't know how to link.

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Re: Bill Gates and Tamarindo

Posted by Ron Stock on September 4, 2020, 8:37 pm, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

This is from Google for what it's worth:

Bill Gates
Four Seasons operates more than 100 hotels and resorts worldwide. Since 2006, Bill Gates (through Cascade Investment) and Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal have been majority owners of the company.

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Re: Bill Gates and Tamarindo

Posted by Daniel H on September 4, 2020, 8:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Bill Gates and Tamarindo"
Edited by board administrator September 4, 2020, 9:04 pm

Searched the phrase (in quotes) "Four Seasons operates more than 100 hotels
and resorts worldwide. Since 2006, Bill Gates"

Your source is either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Seasons_Hotels_and_Resorts

or

https://www.keywordresearchinc.com/site/fourseasons.com

Google just leads you to websites, it is not a source per say, it is
a way to get to the source.

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Re: Bill Gates and Tamarindo

Posted by Jane Henderson on September 5, 2020, 10:43 am, in reply to "Re: Bill Gates and Tamarindo"

Both sides could be right..... Four Seasons could own and operate the hotel while another company owns the ground. When I wrote to the Four Seasons Company a couple of years ago to suggest that the Four Seasons Company could be facing disaster if one of their big trucks rumbling thru La Manzanilla, past a school, killed a child or a kid on a moped, the company replied that the construction had nothing to do with them....it wasnt until the next year that the property was “branded” as a Four Seasons Hotel. ( I did reply that even if the Four Seasons wasnt formally in charge, it was common knowledge that they were behind it....but got no further response)

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Wikipedia says 4 seasons owns nothing

Posted by James on September 5, 2020, 2:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Bill Gates and Tamarindo"

If you trust wikipedia.

Four Seasons does not own any of its properties;[21] it operates them on behalf of real estate owners and developers. For example, its New York Downtown hotel/residence is owned by Silverstein Properties, and its Las Vegas hotel is part of the Mandalay Bay complex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Seasons_Hotels_and_Resorts#:~:text=Four%20Seasons%20does%20not%20own,of%20the%20Mandalay%20Bay%20complex

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Re: Wikipedia says 4 seasons owns nothing

Posted by Daniel H on September 5, 2020, 4:49 pm, in reply to "Wikipedia says 4 seasons owns nothing"

"If you trust Wikipedia"

When it comes to benign information like that about the Four Seasons
business model Wikipedia is very reliable. You can also go to
the Talk tab and the View History tab to see if there are any
ongoing edit wars going on. Most articles have a ton of citations (links)
to the source of its information.

Here is a Wikipedia about the reliability of Wikipedia

What Jane and others are wondering is who is the owner? Who
is the person to talk to and ask questions.

On Reddit there is a sub called Ask Me Anything (AMA). It is
so popular that even presidents have participated. I would love for
someone in charge to do an AMA. It would be good public relations
for them and reduce the gossip.

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Re: Wikipedia says 4 seasons owns nothing

Posted by Tim Edwards on September 6, 2020, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Wikipedia says 4 seasons owns nothing"

To walk us down memory lane, Hernandez, the Banamex guy built Tamarindo. It was about 30-40 cottages, the golf course and then they built the houses on the hill/cliff. Tim Blixseth bought it for maybe $30-40m and ran it for a few years....... into the ground. Hernandez bought it back from him for ????? a few million but made him shut it down first, thus Tim being responsible for the severance cost of about 100 employees. Bilxseth used to come over to Pino's for dinner quiet often. To my knowledege, none of the houses (15-20) have ever been occupied. I have been in several of them and they are very dramatic. Remember when they brought all the long, large steel beams through town. They drilled big holes in the side of the cliff, cemented the beams in the hole and built the houses on them.

Personal design taste not withstanding and NIMBYism not withstanding, the development of the property will be a boon to the area. Someone pointed out, there might be an extra flight or 3 to ZLO and who knows how many local jobs.

The only downside side I see is their demand on the water they get from "our" watershed. Unfortunately they own the right. Maybe, just maybe, as they have exhibited in their help with the recent clean up of the town/beach they might be the best neighbors LM have had.

Lastly, I know just enough about this me make a fool of myself...... if there is anyone who knows more, please sign in.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by john p on September 7, 2020, 3:05 pm, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Year built 1977. Just curious how many of the commenters were here then ? (no I'm not a golfer)
https://www.golfadvisor.com/courses/22461-el-tamarindo-beach-golf-resort

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Marcia on September 7, 2020, 5:38 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

It couldn’t have been built in 1977. I was there in 1991when it was a ranch with pigs snuffling around on the beach.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Jim T on September 8, 2020, 4:33 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

The Tamarindo story makes for interesting investigation during a bout of insomina.

The original owner of the 2,000+ acre property was/is Roberto Hernadez. He was also owner of Bank of Mexico which was purchased by Citibank and became Banamex.

The golf course and original resort was developed in 1993. (According to linked PR article below.)

http://theaposition.com/anitadraycott/golf/335/el-tamarindo-mexico

Tim Blixseth enters story as Tamarindo is an adjunct investment to his Ultrarich Resort in Montana. The Montana property, "Yellowstone" playground of the "rich and famous" gets $375M loan from Credit Suisse to develop further properties. Blixseth, apparently misspends funds, defaults on payments, faces $73M bill for nonpayment of personal taxes, and as part of the settlement for his third divorce, gets control of Tamarindo ($5000 cash and $39M mortgage. Which he later sells for $13.8M and is held and jailed for 14 months in Contempt of Court for transferring/selling assets during prohibited period of bankruptcy.

https://casetext.com/case/kirschner-v-blixseth-in-re-yellowstone-mountain-club-llc-1

All told, I am happy with our little casa in La Manz and wish I was there, shovel in hand, clearing the streets.

JT

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by john p on September 8, 2020, 9:38 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

I agree with Marcia and Jim T. The golf info website I posted had Grand Bay golf courses being developed in 1993, so more likely same time frame for Tamarindo. I do think residents of La Manzanilla,large resorts/developers, are present for the same reason, it is among some of the most beautiful coastal settings on the planet.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by Steve on September 8, 2020, 11:34 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Tho not here at the exact time of completion, I worked as part of the design team in 1994. It was one of the most memorable projects 8n my 30 year (so far) career. Stayed in the Hotel Cazador, and began my l9ve affair with La Manzanilla and the local people.
Originally deigned by Robert Trent Jones Jr. California designer David Fleming took it over before construction actually began.
Regarded as one of the most beautiful tracks in Mexico the reputation of the golf course has been hampered by lack of a good maintenance budget. I have a feeling with 4 Seasons getting involved you will see the ranking of the amazing golf course skyrocket to one of the best in the America's, if not the world. I was also involved with the Robert Von Hagge course on Isla Navidad. With a good budget we definately have them beat.

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by david c on September 9, 2020, 3:42 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

I started coming here in 1974, Barra first, then to LM in 76.

I was around when Tamarindo had the slick info. folders with the 50 estates for sale for $3m (amn). They sold pretty quick.

I remember all of the helicopters coming and going with prospective buyers from all over the world.

My brother and I were invited over there by the manager sometime in the late 1980s to take videos of the different casitas that were for rent, in exchange for us taking him out kayaking.

When I first spent winters here in LM,starting in 1976, we used to walk the back road to Tamarindo beach, where there was a big fence and gate, a rancher, small house with pigs and donkeys and a long rifle.

We would give him a six pack and he would let us romp along the beach all day, sin ropa! Those were the days.

No homes on the LM beach then, just palapa restaurants for folks on the weekends from the mountains.

A good time was had by all!!

Ah yes, the past!!

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by john p on September 9, 2020, 9:12 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Saludos cordiales Senor david c ! Best friggen post in this thread ! Sounds like Yelapa back then, only you could drive to La Manz.. instead of having to take a boat..gracias !

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by david c on September 10, 2020, 12:03 pm, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Gracias!

What is great for me is that I now live in LM in the winters and have continued to enjoy the area and watch the development over the years.

Enjoy!

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Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video

Posted by CraigB on September 8, 2020, 9:56 am, in reply to "4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

I predict there will be "Pigs" snuffling around on the beach in the future.

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4 SEASONS - Architecural design

Posted by ElkeG on September 9, 2020, 11:31 am, in reply to "Re: 4 SEASONS @ Tamarindo 8/23/2020 construction update - drone video"

Have a look ..... https://www.pgiengineering.com/en/projects/four-seasons-hotel-resort-in-tamarindo

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